Top 25...

[lithera]

ESPN is 25 years old and they're polling to see who the top 25 athletes of that time period are. I can't seem to rank them but people who would have to be on my list are:

Wayne Gretzky
Jackie Joyner-Kersee
Larry Bird
Carl Lewis
Lance Armstrong
Barry Sanders
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Martina Navratilova
Alberto Tomba


If it weren't limited to 25 years I'd have to put Marc Spitz on there.

Comments

No baseball?

[thezzyzx.livejournal.com]

barry bonds? A-Rod? McGwire?

Re: No baseball?

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I don't know. There haven't been any babseball players who have just shown to have that magical sort of physical ability to me.

That and if I'm taking the whole package into consideration A-Rod doesn't make it because of the whole money thing. Ichiro has the style but is unproven here, I feel. Barry Bonds might make it. Kirk Gibson has always been a favorite of mine...

McGwire might make it. And I can't bring myself to put Jeter on there.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

If they're not doing the standard North American limitation out of the gate, then Diego Maradona deserves to make the list.

[thezzyzx.livejournal.com]

You and your soccer.

It's not like I just gave a list of baseball pla...


never mind.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I didn't see the limitation at all. I don't know enough about soccer to know who deserves to be on the list and who doesn't.

[grocible.livejournal.com]

What about Anna K? She's the finest athlete I've ever seen. :)

[lithera.livejournal.com]

*stab stab st...* Oh sorry. *ahem*

Greatest not finest, dear.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

There are, of course, a bunch of American soccer players who people could argue about. But Maradona pretty much won a World Cup singlehandedly, scoring what are probably the two most famous goals ever in the process. Only his drug habits and busts later keep him from being universally praised as Pele's equal.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Keen. I'm looking total package so the drug busts do hurt him but he can be on my top 25.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

No, it's right theree on the voting page. Greatest North American athletes.

Which makes so much sense, since it's not like the fans voting have any idea about athletes not from here.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Bah, I say. I'm ignoring that, then, personally.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

Oh, duh! Michelle Akers and Mia Hamm.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Mia! I should have thought of Mia on my own. Especially since I just saw a picture of her. Michelle too.

I'm trying to think of any skaters or gymnasts who might be on here.

[thezzyzx.livejournal.com]

Ripken is on that list!?!?!


Outside of a stupid streak that cost his team a lot, he really wasn't all that special.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

The big names were Mary Lou Retton and Kerri Strug. The former may actually deserve it, too. Oh, and Brian Boitano.

gamethyme and I will push for Brian Bosworth.

And Hulk Hogan.

[princessgeek.livejournal.com]

I would add
Mary Lou Retton
Michelle Kwan
Tiger Woods
Greg Louganis

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Yeah. He wouldn't be on mine, I'll tell you that.

[thezzyzx.livejournal.com]

the problem with that list is that there are too many people I hate (Shaq, Emmitt Smith, Cal "Drink your milk" Ripken) because of who they played for to make me want to choose them.

[princessgeek.livejournal.com]

Scott Hamilton.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

I was thinking Boitano. There were the Brian wars for a few years. Mary Lou Retton perhaps. The 25 years is limiting for gymnasts.

Katerina Witt?

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

Witt is European.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I thought about Greg. I did.

I guess I should add Tiger. I probably should.

Michelle Kwan? Really? If I were going to add skaters I don't know if I'd add anyone in the past ten - twelve years, though she'd be the most likely.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

My problems with those guys aren't teams, I can tell you that. I just don't think they have the all around package. I'm counting style and personality and... Well, maybe Emmitt.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Ooooh. Is he within 25 years?

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I'm ignoring that one, personally. I'd have to take Tomba off. Bah, I say.

[princessgeek.livejournal.com]

Yeah, 1984 Olympics.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Keen.

Nadia Comaneci makes it for the 80 Olympics, though only just.

[princessgeek.livejournal.com]

Well I just said Michelle because I am a skating geek and I like her, plus she won the world championships 5 times.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

It's a tricky thing. With the NHL, especially, so stacked with Europeans, do you let themin because they played in the U.S.? If so, does that clear the way for foreigners who played in other leagues, such as Ichiro and Etchverry? What about all the players in the 1994 World Cup?

If you're going to go worldwide, you can't ignore Ronaldo and Zinedine Zidane, and probably Paolo Maldini, and Peter Schmiechel, and Eric Cantona, and Luis Figo, and Carlos Valderrama and Marco Etcheverry and Jorge Luis Chilavert.

Also, within the North American sphere, Akebono. The first non-Japanese to make a splash in sumo wrestling, and he's one of ours. The other guy, Musashimaru?, was pretty cool too, but it was Akebono who was really The Man.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

True, true. World Championships.

This is hard.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Akebono is a good call.

Maybe I will limit it, then but that seems such a shame, really.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

And when I say "you" in the first one, I mean ESPN, since they're the one imposing the NA restriction, not you.

My Top 9

[apestyle.livejournal.com]

Michael Jordan
Dr. J (is he within 25 yrs?)
Ichiro (I think he's proven his mettle here)
Joe Namath
Mohammad Ali
Tiger Woods
Magic Johnson
Gary Payton (he carried the Sonics for years, and hell I'm local).
Wayne Gretzsky (even tho' I'm not a hockey fan a'tall)

[raphael96.livejournal.com]

How about:

Babe Ruth
Dick Fosbury
Mohammed Ali
Joe Louis
Eric Heiden
Christie Mathewson
Secretariat

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

Who is Alberto Tomba?

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I got it. Not me specific but.. Yeah, got it.

The world thing is all crazy, like. Hrm.

This is rough. I don't think I know enough about sports, really, to say. Though I think, for the NA restriction, if you move here to play and you're here over half the year for playing, you should count.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Babe Ruth isn't within 25 years. Lots of those aren't or I'd have put them on.

Secretariat is, though only just.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

He's an Alpine skiier. The first person to ever win back to back gold medals in downhill. he's the most decorated male Alpine skiier in Olympic history. 50 World Cup victories in his career.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

That would at least exclude people who were here for a month for the World Cup or Olympics and then left. I have an aversion to that rule for soccer reasons, though - Marco Etchverry owns a house here, his kids are in our schools, he lives here year-round pretty much... but he plays for Bolivia. That makes him South American in my head.

With hockey, the international competition isn't as important.

[grocible.livejournal.com]

Oh - great, not fine. Damn that fine print.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmm. I don't know. How would you rule it?

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

I guess on nationality, defined as national-team eligibility. If you would play for the United States or Canada, you're in.

Then you just have to worry about Hakeem Olajuwon, the big cheater, who has played for two different countries in the Olympics. (He played on Nigeria's soccer team and the U.S. basketball team.)

Oh, also, Jorge Campos, the Mexican goalkeeper. I'm guessing not a single Mexican will make the list.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

That works for me.

[raphael96.livejournal.com]

Tomba was great!!

[c-jyd.livejournal.com]

Wow, this is a tough one. And I am a major sports nut. First I'd have to figure out what it'd take to be among the best athletes. I'd disqualify a number of people who would make some lists like Mark McGwire because he wasn't a great all around anything, he had one skill which he performed at a high enough level to make it ok that he couldn't catch a cold sometimes.
Also, really the list should, if anything, include more soccer players than anything else. Its the world's game, and its had its share of great players. But it also gets very little press on ESPN, which focuses largely on the major American and Canadian sports. So I'll keep my commentary mostly to those.

Baseball :
Barry Bonds however, from baseball, is in. Not because of the home runs, these are, in my opinion, not nearly the best years of his career, just the most hyped. Its dominating defense, enough speed to have as many steals as home runs until recent years, and really not having a weak point to his game.

Ichiro is a maybe for baseball. Winning 7 consecutive batting titles in Japan is a huge feat, their hitters are more percentage oriented than American players. To be that good, plus have that kind of speed and defense, he's in.

A-Rod, Ripken, and most other baseball players are not though.

Football :
Barry Sanders, certainly. I'd add Walter Payton and Jerry Rice. Not Emmitt Smith. Sanders and Payton did amazing things on their own. The Cowboys real strength was in that monster offensive line. Dan Marino could have run for 100 yeards some nights behind that. Smith is good. He isn't top 25.

Also for American football, I'd consider the three quarterbacks who really defined the position for a good part of the last couple decades, to the point most of the current crop of QBs are being compared to who they're most like. Montana, Elway and Marino.

As sad as I am to say it, as much as I'm more a defense fan for football, only player with the dominance and personality in the time scale would be Lawrence Taylor.

Basketball :
Five players, and five players only. Jordan, Bird and Johnson would and should be on a lot of lists. Dr. J is borderline timewise, but wrevolutionized the game, and played into the necessary time period. Likewise Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. All time scoring leader, and so dominant in college they /outlawed slam-dunking the basketball for four years, then reinstated it in the NCAA when he went pro/ to give other people a chance.
Shaq - nope, he's good, but he isn't good enough to carry a team like a Chamberlain or Alcinder. He proved that, even with Hardaway, in Orlando. Coming to the 'Yankees of Basketball' Lakers and winning championships doesn't mean anything to me. And he's the only other player right now who should be in the same league as the five mentioned. Given a few more years that coulde change, but not right now.

Otherwise, from Olympics, hard to argue with Karl Lewis, Joyner-Kersee and Navratilova.

I'd like to include more Olympians, but really can't in a lot of areas. The longevity of career isn't there in alot of those sports, and few people have maintained long-term dominance over everyone else in their field. They likely will include a few more in there.

Hockey-wise, no question about Gretzky. I'd be tempted to include Mario.

It pains me to admit it, but for dominance of a sport I'd be inclined to go with Mike Tyson. For a time before he went completely around the bend, he was unbeatable and was the unquestionable icon of his sport. Now he's just a bad sideshow, which I hope disqualifies him from contention. Most of the other great boxers were a little before the time mark. Some of them were still boxing into the 25 year point, but most of those fall into the category of doing stupid things to extend a career.

Lance Armstrong I can't question for dominating a sport.

Willie Shoemaker. Although his period of real dominance came before the 25 year mark, he was still strong and active in his sport well past the 25 year cutoff, and set an unbelievable number of records in his time.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

Secretariat won the Triple Crown in 1973. He may have still been racing in 1979, but none of it counted for squat.

[warpdragon.livejournal.com]

Okay, I got the thing to work, and it's Total 100 Percent Bullshit.

They give you 35 choices. You pick 25. It's bad enough that it's going to be all about the biggest names from the biggest teams. But come ON. At least give us 50 to choose from, preferably 100. They kill off the argument over who to vote for by making us just yell at them for not including someone else! How stupid.

Just a thought

[grayarcadian.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'd add Kareem Abdul Jabbar to the list. Hell, everyone on the '80's Laker's Team was astonishing. As cool as Magiac was, Jabbar was first, and it was a facinating changing of the guard to watch.

[lithera.livejournal.com]

I'm tempted to include Mario or Stevie. If you're talking about being the heart and soul of a team and the ability to give a team a chance any night they play....