See, I think the statue's pretty goddamned awful (the original artwork is much more attractive: I love AH!'s women, but the statue is more or less nothing like it), and unfortunately there's nothing *about* the statue that says to me, "Oh, MJ has discovered Peter's Spidey costume in the wash and is wondering what that's all about!" There wasn't much about the original art that said that either, for that matter, although again, the original art's a lot nicer.
To me it just seems a really stupid place to start. If you're going to be all up in arms about something like this could we start with somewhere that might actually a) deal with real women and b) really made a dent in something. This really does't bother me. Yeah, the statue is way over done. Yeah, I like the artwork better. No, I don't think it is his best work. (I personally liked his original idea for the whole thing better anyway.) I've never really liked Mary Jane one way or the other.
If she found it in his laundry basket which makes it HIS LAUNDRY, and therefore he's not slipping it in [insert beavis and butthed laugh here], so it can't be a "naughty little transgression."
And if that thing in his drawing and thereby the statue is a laundry basket and not a washtub Adam needs to do a little more research.
If she's finding it in the already completed wash, why is the bottle of detergent RIGHT THERE?!
I really, personally think this whole thing is a much bigger deal than it should be. I keep all of my laundry things together, most of the time. My dirty laundry bag is near my detergent and my softener sheets so I don't forget any of them when I haul them all to the machines.
They could easily be living together.
The thing here is the people who are up in arms about this picked a part a drawing (or a statue) that probably didn't get this much of a detailed analysis whe it was first made. He likely had a thought for a drawing, thought it was funny and drew it. Because he know what he meant to draw, he didn't see anything else.
People are seriously getting into an uproar over this? Please. Let me go on the record as saying that sometimes I do my husband's laundry and OMG I COOK for him!
My problem with the image? She's so fucking skinny! Let's address the idea of being thin to be beautiful and not HOLY HELL! MJ is washing Peter's clothing!!
Now let's look at the reproduction of the image into 3D. I haven't seen the original illustration, but if she's have a WTF moment because she found the Spiderman costume in the laundry, it certainly doesn't carry over. Looks more like she's either feeling guilty about finding it or turned on...but not Buh!
One last thing I'd like to address...the following quote: "Well, she’s bending over. Pin-up girls do that. But by that argument – if we take bending over to be a sign of sexual availability, every woman who bends over to pick up something should be chastised, while any woman who eats an ice cream cone or banana in public should have it smacked out of their hand because it’s far too suggestive, and people will be hurt if they see it. "
Sorry feminists! I'm not giving up one of the few weapons I have! I LIKE being a flirt! I LOVE being admired even in a sexist pig manner! Does this make me a tease? Definitely. Does this make me immoral? Not by my definition, but maybe in someone else's. Chances are that if you don't like a woman teasing and flirting with you, I'm not going to because I like my subjects to react.
hmph *sits in a corner while sucking on a popsickle*
I have the original in a sketchbook and I think it coveys it a bit better. I don't think it is supposed to be a 'Buh!" moment. The expression on her face in the drawing is more clearly one of, "Heeeyyyyy.... I KNEW IT!"
1.) Good Girl art doesn't translate well into a more realistic perspective. If you're going to take Good Girl art and make it into a statue, it has to stay relatively cartoony. Otherwise it just ends up looking grotesque - like this statue.
2.) The problem with the statue isn't that it's a particularly egregious expression of the sexism prevalent in superhero comics, but that it's just one more piece of crap, the straw breaking the camel's back. It's not sexy; it's hypersexualized and, speaking as a straight man who LIKES sexy ladies, it's just kind of gross, because...
3.) This panders to the lowest possible common denominator, and it's just one more way that Marvel Does Not Get that they're a big intellectual property management company now. If they (and DC, for that matter) were ready to grow up and act like a serious business, they'd realize that the money they make by pandering like this isn't even remotely equivalent to the money they lose by alienating a potential wider audience and creating a negative view of their product in the wider culture.
The problem with the statue ultimately isn't that it's offensive - it's really only mildly egregious, especially when you compare it to the Heroes For Hire tentacle rape cover or the amazingly stupid Captain America "hey look Falcon's gettin burned alive" cover. The problem with the statue is that the lesson learned by the non-comics buying public about this issue is that comic fans are generally overgrown adolescent boys who spend too much money on overpriced, shitty wank material, and that's a bad advertisement for the product, and given that I'm personally rather emotionally invested in comics as a whole (and not afraid to admit it), I think that is bad.
The problem with the statue is that the lesson learned by the non-comics buying public about this issue is that comic fans are generally overgrown adolescent boys who spend too much money on overpriced, shitty wank material, and that's a bad advertisement for the product, and given that I'm personally rather emotionally invested in comics as a whole (and not afraid to admit it), I think that is bad.
See, that I'll agree with. That I'll get behind. The whole feminism has been set back a hundred years reaction was really just... While I can see what they're saying, this, out of all of the things that could push that button for me, is really, really, really far down the list. Hell, the fact that the Pussycat Dolls have a tv show is higher on the list.
*fucking hates LJ right now* See...I WISH I had been getting my notifications and could have responded to this, but alas, I am at the mercy of crappy technology.
This is one of the main reasons I didn't get into working for comics, at least the two big names. They haven't broadened their target market in ages with no indication that they intend to, even though DC proved they could with the advent of Vertigo.
One would think they'd realize this with any sort of extensive marketing analysis...hell take a fucking poll at any convention!
Alas...it is still such a man's business and run that way....or should I say a Comic Book Male Geek Who Doesn't Get Into The Real World business.
You know, as soon as I saw the Newsarama link, I was all "what are the odds it's that idiotic interview with Adam Hughes where he busts out '...and why can't white people say 'nigger', anyway'" and I WAS RIGHT.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 07:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 02:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 11:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 06:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 06:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 11:58 am (UTC)If she found it in his laundry basket which makes it HIS LAUNDRY, and therefore he's not slipping it in [insert beavis and butthed laugh here], so it can't be a "naughty little transgression."
And if that thing in his drawing and thereby the statue is a laundry basket and not a washtub Adam needs to do a little more research.
If she's finding it in the already completed wash, why is the bottle of detergent RIGHT THERE?!
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 03:05 pm (UTC)I really, personally think this whole thing is a much bigger deal than it should be. I keep all of my laundry things together, most of the time. My dirty laundry bag is near my detergent and my softener sheets so I don't forget any of them when I haul them all to the machines.
They could easily be living together.
The thing here is the people who are up in arms about this picked a part a drawing (or a statue) that probably didn't get this much of a detailed analysis whe it was first made. He likely had a thought for a drawing, thought it was funny and drew it. Because he know what he meant to draw, he didn't see anything else.
Give me a fucking break
Date: 2007-05-25 12:59 pm (UTC)My problem with the image? She's so fucking skinny! Let's address the idea of being thin to be beautiful and not HOLY HELL! MJ is washing Peter's clothing!!
Now let's look at the reproduction of the image into 3D. I haven't seen the original illustration, but if she's have a WTF moment because she found the Spiderman costume in the laundry, it certainly doesn't carry over. Looks more like she's either feeling guilty about finding it or turned on...but not Buh!
One last thing I'd like to address...the following quote: "Well, she’s bending over. Pin-up girls do that. But by that argument – if we take bending over to be a sign of sexual availability, every woman who bends over to pick up something should be chastised, while any woman who eats an ice cream cone or banana in public should have it smacked out of their hand because it’s far too suggestive, and people will be hurt if they see it. "
Sorry feminists! I'm not giving up one of the few weapons I have! I LIKE being a flirt! I LOVE being admired even in a sexist pig manner! Does this make me a tease? Definitely. Does this make me immoral? Not by my definition, but maybe in someone else's. Chances are that if you don't like a woman teasing and flirting with you, I'm not going to because I like my subjects to react.
hmph *sits in a corner while sucking on a popsickle*
Re: Give me a fucking break
Date: 2007-05-25 03:07 pm (UTC)Re: Give me a fucking break
Date: 2007-05-25 03:46 pm (UTC)1.) Good Girl art doesn't translate well into a more realistic perspective. If you're going to take Good Girl art and make it into a statue, it has to stay relatively cartoony. Otherwise it just ends up looking grotesque - like this statue.
2.) The problem with the statue isn't that it's a particularly egregious expression of the sexism prevalent in superhero comics, but that it's just one more piece of crap, the straw breaking the camel's back. It's not sexy; it's hypersexualized and, speaking as a straight man who LIKES sexy ladies, it's just kind of gross, because...
3.) This panders to the lowest possible common denominator, and it's just one more way that Marvel Does Not Get that they're a big intellectual property management company now. If they (and DC, for that matter) were ready to grow up and act like a serious business, they'd realize that the money they make by pandering like this isn't even remotely equivalent to the money they lose by alienating a potential wider audience and creating a negative view of their product in the wider culture.
The problem with the statue ultimately isn't that it's offensive - it's really only mildly egregious, especially when you compare it to the Heroes For Hire tentacle rape cover or the amazingly stupid Captain America "hey look Falcon's gettin burned alive" cover. The problem with the statue is that the lesson learned by the non-comics buying public about this issue is that comic fans are generally overgrown adolescent boys who spend too much money on overpriced, shitty wank material, and that's a bad advertisement for the product, and given that I'm personally rather emotionally invested in comics as a whole (and not afraid to admit it), I think that is bad.
Re: Give me a fucking break
Date: 2007-05-25 04:21 pm (UTC)See, that I'll agree with. That I'll get behind. The whole feminism has been set back a hundred years reaction was really just... While I can see what they're saying, this, out of all of the things that could push that button for me, is really, really, really far down the list. Hell, the fact that the Pussycat Dolls have a tv show is higher on the list.
Re: Give me a fucking break
Date: 2007-05-26 03:13 pm (UTC)This is one of the main reasons I didn't get into working for comics, at least the two big names. They haven't broadened their target market in ages with no indication that they intend to, even though DC proved they could with the advent of Vertigo.
One would think they'd realize this with any sort of extensive marketing analysis...hell take a fucking poll at any convention!
Alas...it is still such a man's business and run that way....or should I say a Comic Book Male Geek Who Doesn't Get Into The Real World business.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 03:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 04:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 03:38 pm (UTC)People need to find somehtiong better to do with their time.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 04:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 04:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 04:51 pm (UTC)You know what would really piss people off? Giving me that three hundred dollars.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-25 06:21 pm (UTC)Ok, allow me to correct. If I had $300 lying around that I already hadn't given to YOU. I'd buy it just to piss people off.